Fleet status

"Just Jeepin'" (macintux) 11/05/2020 at 10:20 • Filed to: unnecessary jeep shopping with jj, jeep

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(I’ve never really had a fleet before; such excite.)

To apologize for the expected decrease in my shopping posts, here’s my first “what’s next” post for the white Jeep, and a look at how much needs done on the yellow one.

(For anyone who is unfamiliar with Jeeps and hasn’t been educated by my incessant, ongoing, obsessive posts about them: the white Jeep is a 2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo, aka “WJ”, and the yellow Jeep is a 2005 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, aka “LJ” or “LJR” or “TJU” or “TJUR” or “PITA”. I’ve owned the LJ for six and a half years, the WJ for three days.)

The good news: the WJ is in fantastic shape. I could have paid half the price for one and then left it in a shop for a couple of weeks to plug the oil leaks, deal with electrical gremlins, etc, but decided I’d rather buy from a place that put a fair bit of effort into it before I got it.

Shocks, front & rear hood/tailgate struts, engine gaskets...I have receipts for the work they did, but I haven’t looked at them yet.

The bad news: the LJ is, as it has been since the first year of ownership, a basket case.

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WJ: Fixes

The most important fixes are two open recalls: airbags and rear impact.

Fortunately doesn’t have a Takata time bomb, but apparently a software glitch that can cause the airbags to go off unnecessarily (still quite bad, obvs).

I’m taking it into the dealership for the recalls next Tuesday.

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The A/C is (probably) busted. It was a bit chilly to verify this, so the car lot and I both punted on this for now (certainly I won’t need A/C for 6 months) but they’ve committed to fixing it once I’ve proven that it is indeed broken.

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The only significantly rusty part is the skid plate for the fuel tank. I saw this on nearly every WJ I looked at in person, so I was expecting it when I first checked this one out.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and some elbow grease if I do it myself, which given my back problems I may not do myself. I’m betting that getting the bolts free on the current skid plate will be an exercise in patience (which I...somewhat have) and strength (which I generally lack and can’t really risk applying).

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There’s a leaky gasket around the tailgate that I didn’t discover until I noticed the spare tire was wet after a car wash. Small potatoes, hoping the dealership can fix that next week as well.

(One minor reason I’ve been obsessed with finding a Jeep to supplement my Jeep, something I neglected to mention in my explanatory post, is that I feel strongly about full-sized spares. Sure, a donut is vastly better than a “fix it” kit, but a full-sized spare is vastly better than a donut. If nothing else, it extends the lifetime of your set of tires by ~20% if you do the smart thing and include it in your rotation.)

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These corroded wheels on the WJ are ugly. The tires are tolerable, and I hope they’ll suffice for this winter, but I’ll start looking for used wheels.

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WJ: Upgrades

There are any number of major upgrades I’m interested in over the long run, but I haven’t done enough research to describe them in any detail. A lift, slightly larger tires, the skid plates that the Overland trim offered, possibly better axles, a front bumper that offers a better departure angle...or at least allows me to park against a curb.

For the interior, I definitely want a better radio. The stock radio didn’t even have an auxiliary jack, so I’ve ordered a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! as an unhappy stopgap while I consider my options.

CarPlay is appealing, but regrettably Chrysler was in love with 1.5 DIN radios when they built my Jeeps, so I’d either have to cut away a portion of the dash to fit a two DIN radio, or buy something like the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! which $$$.

Better speakers are a possibility if I’m paying big bucks to someone to install a nice radio anyway, but I’m unaccustomed to having NVH levels low enough to be able to appreciate better sound quality, so I haven’t decided whether I’ll splurge on that.

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LJ: Fixes

I won’t bother with a list of upgrades for my beautiful but cursed yellow Wrangler; I haven’t been able to manage any significant upgrades in years, since it’s always in need of more fixes. Occasionally I’ll upgrade a component while fixing it, but that’s the best I’ve been able to do.

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There are two major impediments to my ability to enjoy driving the LJ right now: a sticky throttle and an awful transmission.

The sticky throttle sounds minor, and once I find out what’s broken probably isn’t a big deal, but I haven’t been able to isolate the problem and thus far my only attempt to outsource it hasn’t worked.

And it truly makes driving an unhappy experience. The throttle is so sticky I usually don’t need cruise control, and I’ve spooked more than one pedestrian by revving the engine trying to get the idle unstuck.

However, when I bought the WJ, in exchange for paying asking price I got a 6-month powertrain warranty, which hopefully I’ll not need, and I got a few hours of labor to troubleshoot and hopefully fix the sticky throttle, which HOORAY.

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The transmission has been an epic shitshow. I think, rather than rant yet again about it, I’ll just refer to my previous post on the subject.

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At this point I have at least four possible fixes:

It’s possible, albeit unlikely, that a new shifter will fix all of my problems. That is, at least, a common reason for the broken first gear. Unfortunately, a new shifter is around $500, which is an expensive thing to try without being sure it will actually work.

Another NSG370 is a possibility, but a reman runs nearly $5000, and there is no way in hell I’m going to drop another $5000 for this shitty transmission. My favorite used Jeep parts store has !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , but I haven’t determined whether it is a drop-in replacement for mine, and I’ve been too focused on buying another Jeep (and too ignorant of the mechanical aspects/logistics of such a swap) to investigate that.

An AX-15 swap is appealing due to its reputation.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is appealing due to Tremec’s reputation (and of course having an entirely new transmission, instead of a used one).

Unfortunately, any transmission swap is going to be pricy, both parts and labor. I genuinely don’t have the skills or back strength or tools or garage to do it myself, and although I could lean on a local Oppo who has all of the above in spades, I’d prefer to let the one local transmission shop I haven’t given up on do it and have someone to hold responsible for doing it right.

(Well, the $350 NSG370, if indeed it drops right in, is something I’d be willing to do with help...or more accurately willing to let my friend do while I watch and learn. I really should do that research.)

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Other stuff that I’d like to fix on the LJ:

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (I don’t have any radio in it right now)

The fender I crushed trying to protect the Jeep from theft

The airbag control module that was removed because it was (maybe) screwing with my CANBUS

The odometer that stopped working a year or two ago

The e-locker that replaced my blown-up factory locker that (allegedly) destroyed my recently-rebuilt rear differential, but was wired so badly that it stopped working after an hour of use.
Unfortunately all of my wiring is now a shitshow and will require extensive tracing and rewiring that I mostly lack the skill to do, and given my experience trying to destroy the LJ with the amplifier install, I’m more than a little reluctant to attempt any cleanup.

The rock sliders that, after sliding across too many rocks, are now losing their coating, and rusting, and need to be sandblasted and re-coated.

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WJ & LJ: security

I have a Spot subscription, but the locator has always been flaky. I’ve replaced it twice due to hardware failure, and now it sits idle because it’s been so frustrating and I haven’t had to leave my Jeep sitting in a parking lot downtown (thanks, COVID-19).

Somehow I didn’t know, or had forgotten, that Mopar has their own locator service that doesn’t require a subscription for basic use, EVTS. Now that I’m going to have at least one Jeep left behind every time I go anywhere, I need to think about getting it for both.

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So there you have it. If anyone has any thoughts, especially on my transmission options, please chime in.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:29

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If you want to spend some scratch 1FactoryRadio sells OEM head units that have been upgraded to have a bluetooth input  https://1factoryradio.com/jeep-2/

BrokenMostWeeks > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:30

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Sounds like a mega dealer to stand behind an old Jeep like that, and well worth paying a bit extra for a WJ. Props to them!
Super clean WJ as well

As far as LJ transmissions... I’d look into how much work an AX15 swap would be. No, they’re no Miata transmission, but they just work, and I’ve never had an issue with mine, despite 16yr old me abusing the hell out of it for 80k mi 

vondon302 > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:34

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Wait what!? You got a Jeep finally!

Congrats! I missed that.

facw > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:39

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Re: Bluetooth, Grom Audio does offer a Bluetooth adapter (if you have the MODE button I guess?) :

https://gromaudio.com/store/bt3_adapters/chrysler-dodge-jeep-02-09-bluetooth-adapter-car-kit-interface.html

These are a bit pricey ($140 here, though sometimes they list for less on Amazon), but I have one in my Volvo, and it is really great. It pretends to be a CD changer, which means that your built-in controls still work (so you have previous/next, and can also answer/hang-up on calls by pressing those). Highly recommended.

Just Jeepin' > vondon302 11/05/2020 at 10:41

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Hard to believe, innit?

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/i-bought-a-thing-1845554736

subexpression > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:43

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Not sure about the spacing, but I think the bolt pattern is the same for that generation Grand Cherokee as the JK Wranglers. It’s a fairly common swap because it still looks Jeep , plus lots of Wrangler people replace their factory wheels so you might find a cheap set that’s barely been used .

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:44

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Very Jeepy!

Chariotoflove > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:48

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Lol at “ PITA”.

Just Jeepin' > Chariotoflove 11/05/2020 at 10:49

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Was hoping someone would catch that.

Just Jeepin' > subexpression 11/05/2020 at 10:51

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Good point, thanks. Unfortunately the 16x7 Wrangler wheels for JKs are aesthetically blah, but fortunately I tend to not care what wheels look like.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:56

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Someone else has mentioned it, and I’ll confirm: JK and JL wheels will fit on the WJ. With a spacer lift, you might be able to fit JK Rubicon wheel+tire takeoffs.

You mentioned the rear impact recall by name by didn’t expand on it. If I remember right, with that recall they’ll install a hitch if you don’t already have one, right?

You also mentioned in a prior post that you wanted to find what the towing capacity of your WJ is. I know you know about wjjeeps.com, and you’ll find on there that the official “towing package” not only got a hitch and wiring, but upgraded engine cooling and alternator as well—at least I know it did for the V8's. Thus, with just a hitch, Jeep might says it’s only good for 3500lbs.

The bluetooth FM transmitter is exactly what I did in mine. There are kits available to expand to double-DIN, but I never did it.

adamftw > subexpression 11/05/2020 at 10:58

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That is correct.  5x5.5.

jeepoftheseus > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 10:58

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You can buy a brand new AX15 from Novak if you go that route and want factory fresh. Might be an easier swap than a Tremec. Looking forward to your progress.

Now I’m off to go confirm if my coolant leak was the hose clamp that I was able to tighten a few turns or the water pump failing. Yay Jeeps!

boredalways > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 11:12

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My suggestion would be getting the big WJ issues sorted first (airbag, window seal, fuel tank skid plate). Also check the tire date codes. It’s that time of year when tire shops start their “Buy 3, Get 1 Free” deals and/or tire & wheel packages. Or look for a good set of used wheels.

The second part of this suggestion will be the hard part: while getting more comfortable with the WJ, seriously consider replacing the TJ instead of throwing more money at it. Maybe trade it in for a TJ with an I-6 and manual (2004 or older), or (long shot here) a JK with a Pentastar 3.6 and 6MT? I would imagine that the thought of parting  way with your baby is almost unthinkable. But if you feel comfortable enough to ponder this, the easy step would be to take it to CarMax and see what they would offer for it just so you could test the waters.

BrokenMostWeeks > subexpression 11/05/2020 at 11:14

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Can confirm.

Have JK Rubi wheels on my WJ, direct fit. Really opens up some interesting options, as the JK aftermarket is wayyyyy bigger than the old WJ’s. 

MUSASHI66 > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 11:18

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How do Jeep’s have the cult following that they do? I admire you for sticking with the PITA (means pie in the Balkans, always makes me crack up) with the never ending list of issues. You could probably sell that for decent amount of money - two door unlimited are pretty rare, aren’t they - and get a newer one, without the troublesome tranny.

As other said, wrangler wheels and tires will fit the WJ - check Craigslist as those are very common takeoffs and sell for way less than buying new. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 11:26

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So jelly, you have no idea!

3 Jeeps and a Mazda wants a Fiata > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 11:28

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Jk moab takeoffs are cheap as hell. I got all 5 of mine for $100 5 years ago. A BDS 2-2.5 lift allows for 265/70/17 tires with minor rub when reversing. I have a RB1 nav radio in mine with SXM for offroading in the rockies so I always have tunes. I gutted my 10 disc changer in the back and turned it into a storage bin. As for axles youll want quadradrive axles for the vari-loks. They work well but once you put really large tires on they arent as effective. Skid plates can be easily found, that tank plate is actualky a brushguard on yours but holds the tank up. 6 or 8 bolts hold it, use an impact and forklift to make dropping it easier. 

Wjjeeps.com if your friend. 

avalonian > facw 11/05/2020 at 11:30

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I have this in one of my cars, its fantastic. 

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 11:40

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Your Laredo has 16" wheels, but Limiteds and Overlands have 17" like the standard JK wheel. However, I found when replacing my tires a couple of years ago the stock WJ  17" tire size is unusual and therefore pricey. I paid ~$600 for Yokohama A/T’s; I was quoted ~$800 for the Cooper A/T3's.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > boredalways 11/05/2020 at 11:43

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JK didn’t get the Pentastar V6 until 2012MY, so they’re probably still more $$$ than what he wants to pay.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > jeepoftheseus 11/05/2020 at 11:43

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One of the best username s I’ve ever seen

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > MUSASHI66 11/05/2020 at 11:44

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I’ve read before that a Jeep is like herpes: it’ll act up every once in a while, but you just can’t get rid of it.

MUSASHI66 > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 11/05/2020 at 12:01

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Apt description :D

Just Jeepin' > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 11/05/2020 at 12:19

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I thought 17” was increasingly common for LT tire sizes; is it the width of the wheel that’s unusual for that size ?

I’ve found that the TJ 15” and 16” wheel sizes limit the number of winter tires available to me, especially 15” (I was considering picking up some cheap TJ 15” wheels to permanently mount winter tires) .

boredalways > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 11/05/2020 at 12:20

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I know, but trading in his TJ was one of the things that he had previously considered out of the frustration of constantly fixing something on the Jeep.  So it's either finding the a Wrangler with an I-6 manual or the Pentastar with a manual.

Just Jeepin' > boredalways 11/05/2020 at 12:20

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I did a check via the Carvana site, and given the litany of problems their offer was around 3500.

I’m definitely not interested in a JK, so it would have to be another TJ or a long loan for a JL, but in either case I don’t think I’m ready to give up on the LJ. “Never sell your first Jeep” is a common lament.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 12:21

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You’re probably right that 17" is common, just apparently not in the stock WJ size, 235/65R17.

Just Jeepin' > MUSASHI66 11/05/2020 at 12:22

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How do Jeep’s have the cult following that they do? 

I tried to answer that question when I first joined Oppo:   https://oppositelock.kinja.com/tag/jeep-experience

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > boredalways 11/05/2020 at 12:24

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True, because he def wants to avoid the 3.8L garbage.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 12:25

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Finally!

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > MUSASHI66 11/05/2020 at 12:25

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Same reasoning for me with my VWs. We like em.

boredalways > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 12:26

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$3500, OUCH!!!  So it would definitely need to be another TJ 2004 or older.  At least you can find them in decent shape for under $10k, but you'll have that opportunity for an I-6 and AX-15? manual, right?

Just Jeepin' > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 11/05/2020 at 12:36

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Gotcha. 

Just Jeepin' > boredalways 11/05/2020 at 12:38

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If I have a choice between spending 4k “upgrading” to another TJ or 5k fixing mine, I’d rather fix mine.

MUSASHI66 > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 12:38

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I just don’t agree with any of the stuff about them - at least not to the point of “I understand Jeeps”.

Archaic, uncomfortable, very unreliable. The first two have been somewhat solved in the latest generation, 3rd one is still a question mark. 

MUSASHI66 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 11/05/2020 at 12:40

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I guess I do understand that, with my love for 500 Abarths which are very unconventional, and small, and impractical etc., but I still love them to death. 

boredalways > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 12:43

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I feel extremely guilty and shamed for tempting you with this, but would feel just as wrong if I withheld this:

https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/d/indianapolis-1997-jeep-wrangler-tj/7224617439.html

Just Jeepin' > boredalways 11/05/2020 at 12:46

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Huh. From the description it sounds a bit like mine: I suspect some of my litany of problems derived from motor mounts that were failing , thus parts were moving in ways they weren’t designed for.

Thanks, that’s...interesting. I could afford to buy it, but I’m not sure I could afford to fix it.

Alfalfa > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 13:25

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Oh damn, I missed that you actually bought one! I suppose I was distracted planning my own purchase that I made the next day.

Just Jeepin' > Alfalfa 11/05/2020 at 13:26

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This was the primary announcement:  https://oppositelock.kinja.com/i-bought-a-thing-1845554736

Just Jeepin' > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/05/2020 at 13:27

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It’d be nice someday to have a collection like DT’s, minus all the rust and mechanical problems.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 13:34

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LOL

Rock Bottom > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 15:21

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As a former WJ addict, I understand... and also wish you the best of luck. They look good, ride well, and eat up highway miles. They also can be the most frustrating machine ever, mostly due to that spawn-of-Satan Chrysler transmission... I’ve had 2 WJs now and I wish I could forget all the time spent trying to sort out “ normal” 42RE problems . I must have installed like 10 g overnor pressure sol enoid/sensor duos over about a decade   and my garage floor still bares the scars of numerous ATF stains... as does my soul...

Fun story: One day I was driving my last WJ (which was actually a very nice specimen ) at about 45 mph when it suddenly developed a NASTY case of death wobble. It was funny/sad to me because none of my other (much shittier) Jeeps have ever done it at any speed . Never. The cause turned out to be a dragging front brake caliper. Who would have thought. My clapped out 91 XJ doesn’t even have a functional steering damper, and it’s immune to death wobble!

M y first WJ was rough and not worth talking about . My second one was very nice, so it got nice stuff. Old Man Emu lift and steering damper , Goodyear Duratracs, integrated GPS, and an e-locker for the front . It was an excellent camping and trail rig for Northern Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ontario, etc ... when the transmission was behaving. Limp mode is a little hard to deal with when you’re on the trail with a full load of overlanding gear...

Just Jeepin' > Rock Bottom 11/05/2020 at 15:32

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Thanks, that’s....not encouraging, but I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

The transmission is definitely one reason I wanted to find a lower-mileage WJ; the others I was looking at were mainly over 200k. I’ve heard 150k is where it starts causing problems, so maybe I’ll get through the winter before the headaches start.

Rock Bottom > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 16:30

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Yeah, if you’re remotely competent at troubleshooting, it won’t be anything you can’t handle. Mine never left me stranded, they just affected my blood pressure from time to time. It’s also entirely possible I was just unlucky. I know other WJ people that haven’t nearly as much trouble as I had, so maybe I’m an outlier. Maybe I’m even cursed...

Question: Does yours have the automatic climate control? Neither of mine did, but I always hear about traumatic experiences related to “ blend-door” replacement on fancier variants. Sounds like the whole dash has to come out to repair it, which I gather is a pretty bad time.

Just Jeepin' > Rock Bottom 11/05/2020 at 16:33

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Thankfully I have the Laredo which missed out on the fancy climate control that everyone complains about. brokenmostweeks described once how he resolved the problem on his Overland, but I don’t remember off-hand what he did.

I regrettably have few troubleshooting skills, and certainly none that apply to automatic transmissions. This is only the second automatic I’ve ever owned, and the first was a second vehicle I owned for about 6 months and drove maybe 10 times.

Rock Bottom > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2020 at 17:24

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Reading your stuff, I think you’ve got a leg-up on most vehicle users. You’ll do fine.

Perhaps knowing damn well what their customers were in for , Chrysler saw fit to equip these with a handy feature that spews out all the OBD codes without a scanner. Key in the ignition, cycle the key on/off 3 times quickly . When it inevitably throws a check-engine-light, enter the stored OBD codes into Google (like “Jeep WJ P0135") , and viola!

Just Jeepin' > Rock Bottom 11/05/2020 at 17:25

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Trust me, that tri ck I know about. So many codes.